UC Santa Barbara Mass Shooting

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by He's a Mentalist 1, May 24, 2014.

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  1. greg770

    greg770 Nomene tengo

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    you suck
     
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  2. He's a Mentalist 1

    He's a Mentalist 1 Patriot

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    Coercion can also be psychological. The fear of being rejected can force someone to do certain things. It isn't always physical coercion that can be a means of enslavement, rather the idea of something being unbearable can get 'said' victim to do anything the person wanted.

    The point here is what was he being coerced to do? Participate in something he defined as less than his qualities as a person. This is what he meant in terms of enslavement.
     
  3. greg770

    greg770 Nomene tengo

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    Their fear, which would be their own problem. Me telling you that you are sophist asshole and rejecting your bullshit doesn't mean I'm coercing you into doing something.
    And by creating his own definitions of what ought to be he made a huge mistake. His mistakes were his and only his. And he is the only one to blame for his stupidity.
     
  4. TimidObserver

    TimidObserver ZeroCool

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    Well the message to women is to humor any guy that wants your attention for at least a few minutes. It might prevent him from going crazy and shooting you. Well... giving him attention might convince him to stalk and kidnap you, so nevermind. Your all in a lose lose situation.
     
  5. Deimos

    Deimos Well-Known Member

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    I heard on tv that he requested medical help on multiple occasions even to his local police, but apparently they concluded that he wasn't eligible for any sort of treatment that required funding from the government. They said that he appeared shy and quiet not as a "crazy person".

    Instead of hating and bashing a dead mentality unstable person how about people actually brainstorm ways of preventing stuff like this from happening again? How about we address the issue of health care and how it is being administered? How about we talk about the police and their power to medically judge people? Or maybe even how despite the kid having a "bmw" like some of you said (so he mustve been super rich, hurr durr), he didn't actually have the finance backing to seek proper help.

    The signs were there. His previous encounters with the police, his so called manifesto etc. Hate on one dead guy all you want, but it's not gonna solve anything. Think of ways to help spot these people quicker and you might just end up saving an unlimited number of lives in the future.
     
  6. He's a Mentalist 1

    He's a Mentalist 1 Patriot

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    It isn't my bullshit, I am just trying to understand the kid. I don't agree with his ideology or positions.
     
  7. TimidObserver

    TimidObserver ZeroCool

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    Who is trying to solve anything in this thread? There is no solution to this sort of issue. Anyone that can get a gun or any weapon can kill people if they choose to do so. There is nothing that anyone can do to prevent this sort of thing. Even the most extreme courses of action would not prevent crazy people from killing people.

    The only thing that we can do is attempt to minimize the impact that it has on us personally. For example, don't be one of 3 people killed by a guy with a knife. We can't dodge bullets so if you get mowed down randomly while buying a hotdog then tough, but knife defense is doable. The incident should have ended right there when 1 guy with a knife tried to kill 3 people and got his ass kicked. Though fuck knife defense, why were those people even in his apartment. My golden rule that everyone should live by, no pun intended, is do not go into the apartment of strangers whom you do not know because there is an off chance that they are intending to stab you to death.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2014
  8. He's a Mentalist 1

    He's a Mentalist 1 Patriot

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    I forgot the story, but there was a time when a young man moved from his hometown and met someone at a nightclub. A few weeks later, 'said' guy invites him over to his place to hang out with his friends, etc..., and then cuts off his head. Sick story. I forgot the details of why they did it, but it was weird to say the least.

    You just have to be smart in today's world. People seem to have lost that predatory instinct or being able to sense danger, i.e. relying on their gut reactions about the different people they meet out in the world. If I get one strange feeling about someone, I don't rationalize it away, I just get away from that person.
    I tend to give people a chance, but if I figure that something's off about them, I am not going to sit there and say, "fuck those primitive emotions," because on the off-chance 'said' weird person is crazy or a serial killer, I am not going to be one of his victims.

    We have these instincts for a reason and if yours are out-of-whack, better hope you don't encounter a predator.

    To add, I remember greg770 and talking with him for the first time and seeing him (on here). I got the feeling of an angry midget child. It was funny, and to this day, whenever I see him post I see an angry little redheaded midget typing fervently on his keyboard.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2014
  9. dyne

    dyne Evol Staff Member

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    I think he was deranged but I do not believe he was mentally unstable. He knew exactly what he was doing and it was his way of getting the worlds attention. There was nothing any one person could of done you can't prevent these types of things in terms of preventing this mass murder but as some alluded to below the victims could of not gone in his apartment and I assume these victims were stabbed in the back of the neck, if they were male; he would not of taken on a male head on with a knife.
    If I don't know you I am not turning my back to you, you are staying directly in my line of sight.
    A little off topic but I had a conversation with my sister about something to do with this I came home and it was pretty late, like 12-1am, and it was pouring with rain and I didn't put my hood up and she goes why didn't you put your hood up and I said I can't see behind me or to my side its dark I would rather get wet then have some guy(s) jump me.
    I see people all the time, mostly women actually, who put their hoods up and then have headphones in and have absolutely no clue of their surroundings and in my opinion this is just stupidity at the highest level and I'm not talking about the middle of the day I mean like late at night women walking and like just trying to do everything possible to get their minds off that fact they are walking alone late at night. Maybe %99.5 of the time nothing will happen but in the off chance you are in that %0.5 chance you are going to likely regret not paying attention to your surroundings.


    Now back on topic you are going all high and mighty on us yet pretty much every day you are verbally bashing Greg instead of having a constructive intellectual debate no matter the topic. I suggest you check your facts as well because he didn't just have a BMW but he wore $400 dollar shirts, sunglasses, sweatshirts and whatever else so he had more than enough money to get himself the help he needed or "wanted" if what you say is true about him trying to get help via the police station, which honestly doesn't make any sense at all it's more likely just another ploy by this kid to say that society is broken and wronged him.
     
  10. dyne

    dyne Evol Staff Member

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    The responding officer should not be the one to make the judgement call on his mental state he should of been picked up by the responding officer taken to a the proper facility and tested appropriately and then released if he is deemed to be mentally stable. His room should also be then thoroughly searched without his presence to aide with his mental evaluation.

    Police officers do not have degrees in psychology so I don't know why this officer was the one making the judgement call on whether or not he should be in a hospital or not when a therapist was the one who called them.
     
  11. He's a Mentalist 1

    He's a Mentalist 1 Patriot

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    The therapists I have come across were jokes. I don't trust them as they cannot make a well informed judgement on someone's condition better than the average joe. They can relate case studies to certain situations but those are never 85%, and seeing that the lot of them operate on subjective points of view as their whole profession isn't based on objective facts, I don't see how they can render such judgments in the first place.

    Sure, someone may differ from the norm, but just about everyone differs from the norm. We all just put on our masks when out in public, some of us decide to go without the mask and then get called crazy for essentially being like everyone really is, different. If the kid hadn't done what he did, people would say he is looking for attention and he was looking for attention, but everyone ignored him. Hell the cop even ignored him.

    What does a person like that do? Lash out. He just needed the proper attention, but seeing as he spent (imo) most of his time alone, he dwelled on people ignoring him and really embraced his delusions. We don't hear anything of him when he was in High School, only when he enters college and is there for 2 years.

    He is the type of person that doesn't do well being on their own. Some people enjoy the solitary life-style and being a loner, others don't cope too well.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2014
  12. Deimos

    Deimos Well-Known Member

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    @dyne, I only saw the police report by the sheriff and he said that the kid tried to seek help from the deputies many times and they ended up ignoring him. I"m glad that you actually went online and found the quote that says that and disapproves your previous post. You first say that you "think" he was deranged and that he wanted attention but then you rip off on the police for presuming stuff in the next reply. Stop assuming things like everybody else, you obviously didn't know the guy. Let the experts get to the bottom of it.

    My only issue with each and every single one of these cases is that people keep hating on these (dead) murderers and completely miss the point entirely. How to prevent these things from happening again.

    Also mental instability is manifested in various ways, regardless if you are aware or not of your actions. It's a broader way of saying that you have mental issues. Instead of saying something specific like "schizophrenia". Why do i even have to explain this?

    he had already gotten help before many times and he paid for the costs himself. it was getting a burden so he asked for the help. the police said no. I don't know more details than that and i don't care. I didn't know the guy so I'm not gonna jump on the bandwagon and either hate on him or defend.

    apparently no one, since you're all too busy whining about dead people. thats so helpful. also, which one's more counter-productive: everyone complaining everytime or coming up with ways of spotting these mentally unstable characters before bad things happen? and i'm not talking here about looking into everyone's life, I'm talking about pin pointing the ones that show the signs in cases where you can actually do something. writing manifestos and posting them online about how youre going to kill others and continue calling the police or getting into trouble just so you would be allowed some medical treatment is without a doubt a cry for help.

    negligence is one of the main if not the number one cause for these types of tragedies. how many times last year alone have you seen news about people that got bullied at school and then after multiple depressions and cries for help went on killing sprees? then you have the brainless monkeys banding together to bash on them while saying how it's hopeless to try and prevent them from happening and the cycle just keeps repeating itself.

    ______

    young people asking for health care to treat some mental disorders = help them obtain that. point them in the right direction. get them to see a counselor first. then go from there.

    young people getting bullied in school and if they step up to them they get in trouble = train the school's staff better to handle these situations, change policies, do anything that isn't working properly.

    what can we as individuals do in a society? be more supportive and pay more attention to the people that surround us. take appropriate action when needed instead of ignoring it and then going on the internet to hate on them afterwards.

    yes, we can't stop every one out there, thats a given, but we can at least start by helping the ones that clearly have issues and go to the trouble of showing us everyday that. it's up to us to be there when it matters. it's not rocket science.
     
  13. greg770

    greg770 Nomene tengo

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    You've actually tried to pay him lip service in your previous posts. Do you think that you can fool me by calling him a kid and pretending to be all cute and fluffy after I've dealt with you for over 6 years on this forum?

    That's very nice of you, I appreciate it.

    And ohh my, just look at razv blaming "the society". I always knew he was a retard.


    http://reason.com/blog/2014/05/27/elliott-rodger-the-ucsb-shooting-and-5-r
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
  14. Deimos

    Deimos Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't blaming "the society", i was simply saying how all of us "within a society" can improve it by being more aware, understanding and helpful with the people around us, especially with those that are present in our daily lives, like at school, work, local residences and so on.

    But since you've brought up the subject I may indulge in it a little bit. That last quote of yours that talks about videogames and whatnot there might some strong points there to debate about. For example, have you noticed how nowadays on tv we tend to glorify killers? From your regular tv shows (even those that are ranged for teenagers like the vampire diaries where the main cast is made up of mass murderers etc.) to movies (pretty much every action genre to horror, thriller...), games, even the internet in general. Doesn't it strike people a bit odd that we are promoting more violence and sexual annotations rather than....well, anything else?

    It's not even helping us in our daily lives to have stable relationships or to procreate more. On the contrary, most western countries have currently a decline on population. Our mortality keeps increasing, at this rate we'll go extinct.

    My opinion is because of this "fashion" that we've created and "rituals" on how to act, behave and exist that we've begun to over-analyze every small detail about ourselves. You can't disapprove when I say that relationships or human interactions have become more complicated now than they were 100 years ago for example.
     
  15. greg770

    greg770 Nomene tengo

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    Every single individual should decide what, how, to whom and for what in exchange he or she will help others.

    Second, the practice shows that some will hurt others for numerous volitional and accidental reasons. The point you've made is just a nice, hollow and shallow talking point that sounds nice, especially for someone who bought into the conventional moral code. You could even accuse me of being "bad" for insulting you on forum and therefore "endorsing" mass murder. Because who knows, maybe one day you'll snap after being insulted by someone on net.

    Not really, it depends on what specific piece of fiction we are talking about. It largely depends on the "eye of the beholder". I think that TV series, News and movies are dominated by altruist, utilitarian and pragmatic notions and not by amoralist, egoistic or rational egoistic notions, even though the latter one is most likely the only correct moral notion, according to me.

    Last time I checked, generally speaking the bad guy always loses. There are exceptions, and I personally love those exceptions (Usual Suspects?) but could you please list the movies in which the bad guy was glorified and won and then compare it to a list of movies in which the "good guy(s)" won? I'm fairly certain that the former one would get dwarfed on the list as well as by the amount of fans. For example, Thor and Captain America are over buffed mental retards and useful fools who deserve to get annihilated as far as I'm concerned and yet everyone loves them all over the globe...

    Videogames must be engaging and thrilling, because of that most of them feature contest and the best contest for a masculine male is combat and yes, killing. There is nothing to be squirmish about, this is what we are and what we want to see in a game in order to enjoy it. However, even the vast majority of games feature protagonists as good guys or somewhere in the gray area do it in order to make the storyline less cliche. Although, I do prefer those exceptions where you can be a badass demonic usurper who takes no prisoners. But that's beside the point.

    The popular culture of 21st century doesn't tell the kids to kill their friends or random people on the street, even though there is an old game called Carmageddon where you can do just that.

    Also, Vampire diaries feature Vampires and Vampires do what their identity and nature demand, eat humans. It's that simple.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
  16. He's a Mentalist 1

    He's a Mentalist 1 Patriot

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  17. dyne

    dyne Evol Staff Member

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    I did not disprove my previous post okay learn to comprehend English. No where does what I posted say that the kid himself sought out help and went to the police for it when he couldn't afford it. What I did post was that his parents knew something was not right with him and put him in therapy and not only that but when he saw his parents looking at his videos he removed them all so they couldn't see them. This is not something someone who is seeking help would do especially when he says he intends to put them back online after a certain period of time; he's trying to get his parents off his back.
    I have more credibility in saying he was deranged than a police officer who just showed up at his door and questions him for likely 15-20 minutes. I watched his videos and read all of his posts on that body building website thats far more than that officer did. And what I said was that police officer should not even be speaking to him but just pick him up and take him to a facility where he can be evaluated by experts and then go back to his room or house and collect any journals, plans, drawings etc that could help get into his head.

    And what the fuck rasvan "let the 'experts' handle it" is that not what I said when you were talking about your delusional magical airliner that disappeared. You soaked up every bullshit story that was fed to you by conspiracy theorists without waiting for any real experts to chime in on the subject.
    There is more than enough about this guy out there for people to be able to judge his character; He made sure of that.

    Did I not just spell out for you how this could of potentially of been prevented?

    Not only that but in most of these cases you don't seem to understand that you can't prevent these types of things from occurring.

    You can't predict who is going to be a serial killer or mass murderer


    You are just grasping at straws and back peddling. This is what you saying "Oh Mr. Police Officer I can't afford my therapy sessions anymore please get me some for free. I have earned it and I won't be selling my 400 dollar sunglasses or shirts or my 30,000 dollar car okay because society has wronged me and owes me free therapy."

    You haven't even provided anything to prove what your saying is actually true. I provided you with an article that shows you he had therapy, that he had money ,copious amounts of it, and you turn around just argue nonsense.
     
  18. greg770

    greg770 Nomene tengo

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    Right back at you.
     
  19. He's a Mentalist 1

    He's a Mentalist 1 Patriot

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    Bullshit. All the philosophy you need is rooted in logical positivism. Science takes care of the rest.

    Your beliefs are just Levayan Satanism, nothing more. I've heard them espoused before by people in my life which is why I said, "bullshit."
     
  20. greg770

    greg770 Nomene tengo

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    I disagree and have 0 interest in explaining you why.
    A certain part of them are compatible with it would be correct way of stating it. I've been reading you on this board for ages so I have a legit human right to respond to anything you post with the word bullshit.
     

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