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Discussion in 'The Pub' started by TimidObserver, Jun 2, 2014.
Yeah Timid, you're just a defeatist. LOL that's so good.
Reading through this stuff, its fine to want every one to be able to afford middle class. But that's not real world. If this trends, it will become an economy killer. And im sorry to say but flipping burgers shouls not be $15/hour
I am well aware that there are many things that I don't know. For example, I suck a advanced Calculus and I can't fix a car to save my life. I don't think I know everything, I simply disagree with you on a number of things.
You are putting raising the minimum wage forward as a solution to corporations siphoning from society. That simply is not the case. The only thing this will accomplish is increasing the pay for certain jobs beyond the value of the work being performed and potentially harming the economy. If you are okay with that, fine, but don't attach any lofty ideals to it in order to make it sound better.
Yeh, I thought that was pretty hilarious.
I'd personally suggest...
To really learn math. Apostol may be dry but, for me, I learned more about calculus than in lecture hall reading that text. The course notes help as well as it explains most concepts in an intuitive manner. I found those notes a complement to Apostol's text.
In any case I am not attaching any lofty ideals. I have no ideals for how society ought to function, I just know (from personal experience), that corporations tend to get away with things that are easily fixable by competent law makers.
Sort like fixing a leaky faucet. You just go in and fix it. You don't say, well, let's just tear down the sink and throw it out. You can continue to have the sink if you just fix the minor issue. The minor issue here is giving large amounts of money to corporations every year because we feel obligated to have their business continue in America (this is an excuse that politicians use all of the time).
The corporations in America will stay in America regardless as they make most of their profits in the U.S.. If they decided to pull out, they'll end up losing a lot more than if they had stayed.
Raise the minimum wage, but also put pressure on the corporations to pay what they must pay, and stop giving them money they do not need.
I'll pass. I only took Calculus because I was forced to as a part of my degree. I have no desire to learn it anymore than I already know about it.
I am all for everything after but. Raising the minimum wage that high just doesn't make sense to me. Some jobs simply aren't worth that level of pay.
Maybe I can explain what I am saying better. Corporations and what they are getting away with are not valid points in the case for raising the minimum wage something like 50% all at one time. That is because raising the minimum wage won't impact what they get away with.
The only valid reason you've given for raising the minimum wage is that it would help some people.
I never said the argument of cutting loopholes on corporations etc as being a valid argument in terms of raising minimum wage. Someone stated that raising the minimum wage would hurt the economy, and it wouldn't compared to what corporations are doing to the economy.
You're right though, some jobs do not require a large sum of money, however, when it comes to liveability, a person must be able to support a life-style where he or she can survive off of. A minimum wage of $15 is not a lot either, it is still small, but said person would not be 'poor' or placed into that bracket.
You further exemplify a defeatist attitude by what you just said. "I'll pass. I only took it because I was forced to."
You assumed you sucked at it because you were of the mentality, "I am being forced to learn this shit for this degree," and not doing it based on your own volition. In other words, it seems to me, at least, that you didn't care for it too much because it was something you had to get past.
If you truly wanted to learn it and understand it, I would wager that you probably would not be bad at it as you suggest of yourself. I see this happen a lot with people I tutor in math, they say they're bad at it and it usually stems from them either missing fundamental concepts or not trying to understand it. Once we get past those barriers the students tend to be more interested in the math than when we first met.
I am not in this thread to talk about Calculus. Mentioning it at all was to demonstrate that I don't know everything and that I am aware that I don't know everything.
As someone who has graduated, I choose what I study and that tends to consist of things that I enjoy. Calculus is not one of them, thus I do not needing links or advice.
If it isn't related to raising the minimum wage, then why bring it up at all?
So, you really think it is a good idea to try to force businesses to pay someone more than the value of the labor they are performing so that they can survive. I'd really like some honesty here. You really can't see anywhere that coming at it from that angle could go terribly wrong, or have you simply concluded that the negative impact is worth it regardless?
At a certain point it becomes a decision between giving in to the required pay and finding a way to eliminate the need for the position.
I told you why I brought it up.
Some businesses will try and pay their employees the bare minimum that the law will allow of them. Also, it depends on the productivity of the business. Say a business like Taco Bell pays its worker $5/hr but makes hundreds of millions to billions quarterly, such a business is not paying their workers based on the employee productivity rather squeezing the worker pay to fill the middle manager to CEO pockets.
As I said before, if a small business cannot afford to pay their employees a liveable wage, I couldn't care less if they have to file a Chapter 13. Most small businesses are crap from what I have seen when working in the financial industry. They open up their business, they come to me and talk about market analysis, etc..., and then take out a loan from a banking institution, 3 months later their closing the doors.
I made money on their business either if it tanked or was successful. It was the same game over and over again. Some businesses were very successful but that is due to experience and intelligence which most small businesses lack.
Bad for the economy? Not really.
Timid would be considered a tory (conservative party) in the uk ( as it stands now).
I have a basic rule any business that can not give its workers a real living wage cannot be a viable business.
@espda_vacio everyone will eventually have such a lifestlye considering increasing automation of factories in the developed world, and when we sort out the renewables and fusion energy problem, it will be inevitable for the rest of the world population as well.
I'm still waiting for the day when the minimum wage is increased to at least $10 over here in Florida.
If you want it you need to get organised with everyone in your work place and city, in others words grow some balls bitch!
It would be much easier if you had strong labour movement but the majority of Americans are too propagandised, it would be much easier to talk to a creationist about evolution being a fact.
That's what I'm hoping for as well $10 would a great start to increasing minimum wage. Some good info in this vid about how corporations / franchises work.
It's about time that min wage was raised in Seattle. Now we need to make all 50 states raise their min wage so people can have a better way of life.
What about the people that are making 15 a hour right now? Do they get a raise too? Or does some kid with the brain power of a mc donolds worker get to make the same as me? If so...sign me up -_-
Seriously though it won't solve the problem. Alls it's going to do is drive the cost of everything up even more because the government doesn't regulate how much these company's are charging for everything in this country. It's totally got out of control. It started with gas going up...and people just took it. So other company's decided to slowly drive the cost up of food and other services to crazy prices.
Until the government steps in and tells these company's how to rock and roll like they used to back in the day, then the cost of living will continue to go up. To where 15 a hour is going to seem like your making 8.40 a hour again.
there are a lot of places that have already reached that pointe. a few months ago there was a story in the sunday chronicle how sf city workers (among the highest paid in the nation) making over 70,000 usd a year could not find a place to rent that they could afford. over 70 grand a year and they can't afford to rent anywhere. says alot about the value of the dollar. and the crazy real estate market here.
Very well said. If the min wage goes up everywhere, prices on gas, real estate, food, heat, electric, hot water and a ton of other things will go up in price as well. Plus, others who already make that amount cant afford to live a decent living now as it is. I'm on SSDI and my income is $1500 per month and I still have trouble making a decent living. After all my bills are paid it doesn't leave alot to spend. I barely have enough for food and cant afford new clothes and cause I've been very sick, I've lost a ton of weight and need new outfits, but sadly new clothes have to be put on hold for a bit. I get a 3% raise once a year and it is still not enough money. My daughter just graduated high school, majoring in metal fab and welding and she's very lucky. She got a job right away starting out at $16 per hour. But the brat doesn't chip in with the bills, so she lives here for free and I blame that on myself.
Very well said KG. And true. Plus there is no middle class anymore. There us upper and lower middle class. People need to have 2 incomes to just survive. It's a very sad situation with no relief in sight in the near future.
Even better idea.
I heard dat. An even super duper idea. Great find on youtube ismey