Minimum Wage raised to $15 in Seattle

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by TimidObserver, Jun 2, 2014.

  1. TimidObserver

    TimidObserver ZeroCool

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    So, apparently McDonalds workers and retail cashiers in Seattle are going to be getting paid $15 an hour? That is interesting. What do you guys think about this.

    I think that Seattle has a pretty good economy, so overall they will be able to eat this change, but it will crush some small businesses. I think Seattle will be fine,but , if this begins to spread throughout the country, it will devastate less prosperous places.

     
  2. Noroi_musha

    Noroi_musha Haters Gonna Hate

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    I told my roommate about this and he told me that in California, its $20 per hour. Florida needs to shut the fuck up and accept the $10 minimum wage.
     
  3. Koshka_Goddess

    Koshka_Goddess the north remembers Staff Member
    1. A Song of Ice & Fire

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    there is no $20/hour minimum wage in california.
     
  4. greg770

    greg770 Nomene tengo

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    Why not make it 30$ an hour guys? It's not like you know anything about economics so why the hell not?
     
  5. TimidObserver

    TimidObserver ZeroCool

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    I am no economist, but I have taken enough classes on the topic to understand that raising the minimum wage that high across the country would not be good for the economy.

    I think that most people honestly understand this. To some of the more hardcore liberals, it simply doesn't matter. The economy taking a hit in order to give less fortunate people more money is worth it to them.
     
  6. greg770

    greg770 Nomene tengo

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    No, let's make it 50$ and everyone will become middle class! On the side note, we will have to outlaw service machines! Heck, let's just go full throttle Commie! Huzzzaahhh!
     
  7. TimidObserver

    TimidObserver ZeroCool

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    LOL. I still can't get over this $15 to flip a burger thing. I know people with office jobs and degrees that don't make much more than that. Small businesses are going to be cutting hours down to like 4 hours a week.
     
  8. greg770

    greg770 Nomene tengo

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    Welp, you will. Prices will increase across the board, people will get used to it and it also won't make a lot of difference because prices..will increase across the board.
     
  9. dyne

    dyne Evol Staff Member

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    No it just means instead of a hamburger costing 8 bucks its going to cost 13
     
  10. He's a Mentalist 1

    He's a Mentalist 1 Patriot

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    Some of them do have children and families to support so to a certain extent, I don't mind it. You have to factor in the cost of living and expenses to say, support children and the like.

    I get it, they shouldn't have been dumb enough to have children at an early age, yada yada yada.... If they are trying to support their kids and make the best of the messed up situation they've gotten themselves into, then I don't want to persecute them further by saying $10 is good enough (I personally don't think it is good enough to feed and clothe children). Of course, inflation will eventually be factored into the equation. I am no economist though.

    We've been allowing businesses like Walmart, Shell, and ExxonMobile to take welfare for a long ass time now whilst evading our taxes. This raising of the minimum wage to something decent is pennies compared to what we allowed them to get away with.

    In any case it is the needy fighting the needy as we have seen one too many times, or I have seen via the books.
     
  11. greg770

    greg770 Nomene tengo

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  12. TimidObserver

    TimidObserver ZeroCool

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    I doubt it. Some stuff will go up like produce, gas, clothing, ect. However, I don't see fast food skyrocketing. Most fast food is terrible and the people that own the places know it is terrible. They would lose more than they gain if they pass all of it on to the customer. I don't see McDonalds/Burger King prices going up more than 15% regardless of what minimum wage is.

    This part of your post truly demonstrates the problem with the mentality of the people that support this sort of thing. First you say you get that it is their fault for fucking up. Then you follow it up by saying that they've been persecuted, and you don't want to persecute them further, but you just said it is their fault. So my best explanations of what you are saying is that they are persecuting themselves into poverty, and we have to throw money at them to relieve their self persecution? What?

    Really an our bad act is justified their badder act argument?

    Nothing we do is going to impact the bottom line for big corporations. I remember when the Walmart around the corner had a full staff 24/7. Now, during late hours there is typically no more than 2 people working the registers. The rest is self checkout. If the minimum wage starts to go up across the country we'll see more automation, prices going up to some extent depending on the product, fewer employees with increased duties, any non-required benefits cut, and so on.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2014
  13. He's a Mentalist 1

    He's a Mentalist 1 Patriot

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    I personally feel that education is a powerful tool. Most kids that undergo education when it comes to sex and the consequences if one doesn't take the necessary precautions when it does come to sex, are less likely to get pregnant. That particular aspect of my post mostly addresses children as they produce children out-of-wedlock (or in a sufficient relationship with the means). Once they have the children and see the perils of it all in taking care of that kid, they then try to better themselves and their child.
    I get that people, when kids, make horrendous mistakes, but as a society we can help to limit that in terms of education and proper forms of social care so to speak. That is what I am discussing. A girl at 16 having a kid and now is 26 trying to put a 10 year old through school and adequately feed a kid at $10/her along with medical issues cannot adequately take care of that kid on such a meager salary. The kid is born, it is now a part of society, and it affects society.

    I believe in proper education at birth, and teaching children about the reproductive cycle, etc. before they reach adolescence as once they hit the teen years they at least know something and what is the proper route to go. But people are obviously against for their own dumb reasons.

    None of this addresses the tens of billions that these corporations are able to syphon from society. My argument is only to help society function better.

    Prices will always go up, minimum wage has always risen and robotic automation takes over for good reason. More productivity for the corporation = more profits and if we tax them as we should and cut them off of the benefits (welfare) they receive that they do not need, society could afford a higher minimum wage to help people eat at least.
     
  14. greg770

    greg770 Nomene tengo

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    Ohh god, I knew this was going to happen. Btw Beefy, there is a bunch of studies out there which prove that taxes in general don't improve anything or/and hurt the economy. Besides, if you think that large firms and corporations won't strike back by influencing politicians you're deluding yourself.

    http://taxfoundation.org/article/what-evidence-taxes-and-growth
     
  15. He's a Mentalist 1

    He's a Mentalist 1 Patriot

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    That very article was debunked...

    http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=4094

    Taxes have stimulated the economy, especially at a higher rate than they have done so now. Also, businesses weren't able to utilize loopholes to evade paying a higher rate and the government didn't allow them the billions of dollars it does now in welfare money.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal

    All I am saying is you don't have to raise the corporate tax rate, just shut down the loopholes and stop allowing corporations to take billions of our tax dollars when they don't need it. That will add more money to the economy than take from it.
     
  16. greg770

    greg770 Nomene tengo

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    And they've responded to the supposed debunking;
    http://taxfoundation.org/blog/empirical-evidence-taxes-and-growth-response-cbpp

    Very generous assertion about taxes. Would you like to show me what made you believe it is true?
    They won't do it unless you won't stop taxing and regulating them. This game is played by a a lot of different factions and you can't point at corporations saying that it's them who seek power over X, Y and Z but govt. doesn't.

    And one more fairly useful link; http://neighborhoodeffects.mercatus.org/2012/09/21/do-taxes-affect-economic-growth/

    Anyways, the state has the ability to proclaim any minimum wage it wants, the question is whether it is wise or not. And it happens to be a shit decision.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2014
  17. He's a Mentalist 1

    He's a Mentalist 1 Patriot

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    Minimum wage has always been raised, and people like you have said it was a bad decision. Check U.S. minimum wage history. Also, the New Deals refutes any link stating that taxes don't help the economy. We always go through this and the wages increase along with some prices. Arguing about it is pointless to me as it will always turn out the way I stated.

    Source: History...
     
  18. TimidObserver

    TimidObserver ZeroCool

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    I agree with you entirely on education. Our entire educational system is completely stupid. In most public high schools, everyone is trained as if they are going to college. Not everyone is going to college, and our public school curriculum should take that into consideration.

    Sure the kids are part of society and they affect society. This isn't an issue with taking care of kids. Increase the amount of food stamps given to mothers even more. Increase other targeted benefits that directly impact this so called kid that is now part of society.

    My issue is with using social welfare as a reason to increase the minimum wage. Why give unrestricted money to people that have already demonstrated that they cannot manage their lives? I prefer giving them money in a form that ensures that it will most likely get to the so called kid.


    Exactly, none of this addresses it because there is no addressing it. It isn't going anywhere and nothing we do is going to change it.

    You keep talking about the evil corporations, but the minimum wage has nothing to do with them. For one, it will impact small businesses more. For two, it will not impact corporations as much as impacts their customers.
     
  19. greg770

    greg770 Nomene tengo

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    For all practical purposes it always raised on its own as the overall productivity and sophistication of Civilization/s went up and it also fell together with them. What the state does is artificial and by, if I may, dictatorial decree. But it's ok, expect more cronyism.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2014
  20. He's a Mentalist 1

    He's a Mentalist 1 Patriot

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    @TimidObserver:

    You always think you know everything, you don't. You are just a defeatist. In the previous thread, "there's nothing we can do," in this thread, "there's nothing we can do," what the hell? Sure, there is always something you can do. It is about finding out ways to get to the end goal or helping someone else move further than you can.

    I don't believe nor have I ever said corporations are evil. I merely addressed simple loopholes that can be filled up so they have to start paying whatever it is they should when it comes to corporate taxes. Of course they will find another loophole, but then just cover that up. It will continually add money to the economy.


    In terms of small businesses, I couldn't care less for them. If they cannot pay their workers a few more dollars, who gives a shit if they get shut down? I've seen plenty of small business owners being able to manage paying workers $15-$20 in Minnesota, where the cost of living is not as high as say, California. But their business practices and money management is essentially top-notch. They are smart. Their prices are reasonable for the average consumer as well.

    Then again, demand for their products is high as well. In any case, small businesses that offer shit-products will get dumped and better small businesses will prosper. Why should I care for shit products from a shit business?
     

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